Images are irresistible, and so it didn't take long for the Pentagon to release videotape of the Iranian harassment of U.S. naval ships Sunday. Speedboats dart about the hulking American vessels, their size belying their potential to deliver a suicide bomb or other mortal threat.
The Iranians obviously had theater in mind themselves: The 30-minute confrontation was seemingly choreographed and includes a heavily accented male voice taunting the Navy over the radio. "I am coming to you," the voice says. "You will explode after [inaudible] minutes."
By William M. Arkin | January 9, 2008; 8:17 AM ET Iran
Previous: Dire Straits |
See some of the comments that were exchanged between
plainfacto and myself which proves that people can
come together, and please don't overlook the
more caustic exchances that took place. It is
sad that religious people, all who claim to be
connected to God, cannot do a better job
of respecting one another's viewpoint.
Please read comments from the bottom up this time in order to under the threads!
to plainfacto from the Rev,
And I suspect that the people of Iraq,
Iran and other nations of the
world would appreciate it more,
if the people of the United
States would find a more
pallative and trustworthy
way of helping
them, unsolicited
of late, to secure
their freedoms!
You and I for example -
and I appreciate your
comments and candor
have been able to find
synthesis
via a spirited, but
fruitful discussion
- no one was shot!
BTW in the state of MS
they hung my uncle to
a tree and shot 66
holes into his dangling
body, roughly 70
years ago - I'm not
saying this to you,
however, I am
certain that
some Mississippians
(Trent might have
approved of that
too) probably interpreted
that as helping
him to secure
his freedom.
Okay, that was a cheap
shot, but so was Trent's
with respect to Edgefield
S.C. son of a killer racist
former Congressman, and
possibly Rev, Al Sharpton's
distant cuz!
Having said that, you sound
like a decent person who
can be reasoned with
and there are many
individuals in the middle,
near east and the Americas
who share that quality -
they don't have to be
slaughtered.
And believe me
black people want to
protect this country,
we simply want the nation
to become
what George H.W. Bush
talked about, 'a kinder
and gentler nation',
and to conduct America's
foreign policy in a
more considerate, not
shoot first and
ask questions
later manner.
Unfortunately, we believe
that the nation needs
to become kinder and
more malleable at the
same time that the
majority culture
feels that the nation
needs to become more
aggressive.
And there is another
part of the disconnect
that goes beyond red
state/blue state
politics. Black
Americans could
help bridge the
gap between the
two polar opposites
here in the USA and
overseas. Some
Americans, on
the other hand
do not want the
gap to be bridged;
they are after control
as well as wealth.
You can understand what I
mean given your
comments as follows:
At least, some of us haven't.I appreciate it that you mentioned
But we don't rule the domain.
We are not the rich and powerful.
The monied interests and rulers through the ages have always gained power more in spite of our heritage for loving freedom than because of it.
the monied interests..., for there
are some powerbrokers in America
whose aims clearly are not as
altruistic as your interests,
or your family's interest
have been or appear to be.
And it appears that all too
often it is those
individuals who I just
mentioned, that
are the ones who
appear to be driving
driving the process -
that others on both
side of the ocean
white, black, rich,
poor, male and female -
are dying over and
that is NOT
Freedom - well it
may be freedom
to exploit
whomever
they have to in
pursuit of
market wealth.
So you and others ought to be
able to see why the Iraqi, Iranian and
Pakistanti people might be as
fearful of President Bush and
the United States, as they
might have been of Saddam
Hussein and the Bathist
parties.
I suspect that there are
still better methods that
we can employ as a nation
in order to help other
nations to obtain
their freedom
objectives!
As Americans today,
and many have appeared
to have learned finally,
you cannot just
take what you
want from Iran,
Iraq, Pakistan,
or nations of the Americas...
in the manner that
the American
colonists
bought and brought
people from
Africa -
even if
African
traders
sold them to
American traders!
The white family that I lived with
for the past 4 weeks agree with the
Rev's postion about justice too!
Posted by: The Rev | January 9, 2008 07:42 PM
Isn't this country grand?
It turns out that to be a warrior, ready to take on a nation of 70 million, all you need is a browser and a bad temper.
Strange, but I don't see a Baghdad or Kabul dateline in any of these posts. But then making war has always been much easier from a desk than in the field.
But, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Jorho and Plainfacto and Bulldog6 and Vincent and Steve and Mike are strapping on their warrior gear right this minute.
Or maybe not. Maybe they're heading to the bathouse where they can, as is their custom, demonstrate to each other how manly they are.
Posted by: camorrista | January 9, 2008 07:09 PM
Hey Rev:
We haven't forgotten the previous oppression. At least, some of us haven't. But we don't rule the domain. We are not the rich and powerful. The monied interests and rulers through the ages have always gained power more in spite of our heritage for loving freedom than because of it.
Please understand that I don't feel 'entitled' or 'priviledged or overtly 'enlightened' by my ancestry.' Instead, I feel responsible for this country. Yes, responsible. Maybe - moreso. My vote counts the same as yours -though.
What you sense is my own need to make it work now - as it did way back then. The priciples of democracy are quite simple, it is the world that gets complicated. Money and corruption are bound in the heart of man. You know the bible? Then you should know this - too.
As a side note, many of early settlers (in the North) bought slaves to free them. I know my family did for sure. One of my past relatives gained early notoriety in colonial America for harboring a fugitive slave and refusing to turn him over to his 'so-called' owner. Many a field in this country have been soaked with the blood of my relatives, who fought and died for the simple idea that men are naturally entitled to freedom. These are some of the many things that attach me to the ideals by which they lived.
Only God makes people truely free. Some governments allow their citizens to thank God for their freedom. That would be any country that guarantees the right to freedom of conscience/religion.
On the other hand, some countries force their citizens to thank God. But, in such a case, the people are no longer free. Indeed, how could one be thankful for freedom that doesn't exist, and especially when the thanking is involuntary?
Then there are those who are given no freedom at all by the dictates of their government. You can see them by comparing to the above.
I think that George Washington said it best, in his fairwell speech. Paraphrased, he said that it was not only important that 'real' Christains were essential to keep the courts - and therefore the government - honest and straightforward, but essential for it continue as he would have it.
I kinda liked 'ol George for saying that way - in particular. Priveidged, sycophant, overbearing rules of government; no. Hard to understand and interpret; no. Easy and responsible for the citizen to understand' yes.
Posted by: Plainfacto | January 9, 2008 07:08 PM
How quickly we forget....
The US entered the Vietnam War after the so called "Gulf of Tonkin incident". Please google that exact phrase, which is in quotation marks above, for further insight.
If Lyndon Johnson's administration fabricated (lied about) the Gulf of Tonkin incident, how could ANYONE with average intelligence, or above, believe this Iranian "harassment" (in unrecognizable/unidentifiable speed boats) is nothing but more than war-mongering chicanery by the same WMD liars, er, I mean, "misinformed intelligence" of the Bush administration?!?
Posted by: Rex | January 9, 2008 07:08 PM
Oh by the way, I still think George Bush is a liar, thief, murderer, and torturer. In a just world Dick Cheney and George Bush would die in prison. HEY NEOCONS THAT MY VERSION OF "BRING IT ON"!!!
Posted by: Farzad | January 9, 2008 06:58 PM
When will the highly-offensive comments listed in this section be deleted? It's sad and disturbing to see belligerent ignorance manifest itself here on the Washington Post Company's website, or anywhere.
Please remove the offending comments immediately; the webmaster certainly ought to consider banning the offending contributors.
Posted by: Concerned Reader | January 9, 2008 06:55 PM
Can anyone say Gulf of Tonkin? Yes, the "incident" involving North Vietnamese high-speed patrol boats firing on navy ships that sparked our entry into the Vietnam War . . . that NEVER happened we now know.
Posted by: Steve | January 9, 2008 06:38 PM
Hey Farzad, I hear Iran is looking for new suicide bombers, can you PLEASE apply for the job? I hear it has great benefits (72 ugly Muslim cows).)Another neoidiot
LIKE I SAID I AM NOT A MUSLIM, DON'T BELIEVE IN ANY RELIGION. SO MUSLIM WOMEN ARE COWS NOW? VERY INTERESTING RACIST, RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY, AND MISOGYNY ALL ROLLED INTO ONE. WOW, YOU CONSERVATIVES HAVE REALLY OUT DONE YOURSELVES. THANK YOU FOR EXPOSING HOW YOU HAVE NO IDEAS, AND CAN'T ARUGE SUBSTANCE AND FACTS. THIS IS IT PEOPLE, THIS IS ALL THEY HAVE TO OFFER. THREATS, SMEARS, AND BRAINLESS CLICHES; THANK YOU FOR DEMONSTRATING HOW YOU LACK INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY AND HOW MORALLY REPUGNANT YOU ARE. I OUTGREW THIS KIND OF CHILDISH BANTER WHEN I GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL. I AM GLAD THAT THE WASHINGTON POST FEELS THAT THIS KIND OF RACISM AND HATE SPEECH IS GOOD CONTENT FOR THEIR BLOGS. IF I CAME OUT AND MADE THESE TYPES OF COMMENTS AGAINST JEWS, AFRICAN AMERICANS, ASIANS, OR ANY OTHER GROUP THEY WOULD KICK ME OUT OF THIS CITE AND DELETE MY MESSAGES. TYPICAL, BEING IRANIAN IS THE NEW BLACK I SUPPOSE. AND THE WP IS SHOWING ITS ANTI-IRANIAN AND ANTI-MUSLIM BIAS AGAIN.
Posted by: Farzad | January 9, 2008 06:35 PM
What kind of Arab or Persian is Farzad? Just wondering. Have you prayed 5 times today yet?)jorho
THANK YOU AGAIN FOR DEMONSTRATING THE COMPLETE LACK OF IDEAS AND XENOPHOBIA OF THE RIGHTWING IN THIS COUNTRY. MY NAME IS PERSIAN, AND I AM AGNOSTIC, I DON'T BELIEVE IN ANY RELIGION, AND IN FACT BELIEVE ORGANIZED RELIGION IS A NEGATIVE. BUT THANKS AGAIN FOR BROADBRUSHING ME, AND TRYING TO INSULT ME. AT ONE TIME, I WAS EVEN A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN AND A REPUBLICAN, BUT THEN I WENT TO COLLEGE AND ACTUALLY READ A BOOK OR TWO(not written by Ann Coulter, Rush, or Hannity), TRY IT.
And quite frankly I am very proud of my persian heritage and culture and I wouldn't change it for anything, thanks again for showing the ugly face of bigotry, hatred, and intellectual bankruptcy of the rightwing in this country. As if any reasonable person needs more evidence of it. NOT ONE OF YOU HAS EVEN TRIED TO ARGUE WITH THE POST OR THE SUBSTANCE OF THE CITE I HAVE PROVIDED. INSTEAD YOU JUST THREATEN ME WITH VIOLENCE, SMEAR ME, OR THROW IN VEILED RELIGIOUS EPITHETS. IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACTS, IF THE WEAPONS ARE FROM THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OR IRAN, WHY ARE THEY THE WRONG SIZE, WHY ARE THEY DATED STAMPED WITH THE CHRISTIAN CALENDAR, AND WHY IS THE WRITING IN ENGLISH?
Oh wait you guys don't have a response other then, "he hates America", and "I want to kick you a--".
Posted by: Farzad | January 9, 2008 06:13 PM
plainfacto
Let me say this as a black
American, and someone just gagged
I know.
As a bifurcated American,
part American and part
African, I can always sense
a form of patriotism from some
writers in this blog that
I have often suspected
dates back to their ancestral
heritage.
It is something that in one sense
many Americans like me do not share,
in fact at times, and even though
I believe I understood - it
seems hypocritical.
It appears to be a harbinger or sense
of pride that
goes along with a feeling that
we are the 'true 'Americans',
and therefore we must protect
the trust!
Indugle me, for again there
are those of us who on the
other hand share multiple ancestry
some of us part white. So, some
of us feel, therefore, a
strong kinship with the descendants
of the American colonists, despite
what they put our ancestors
through, yet we also feel a common bond
with the native American tribes,
the other non-white people of
the world, and those people
who have and are being oppressed
by any oppressor.
Why? Because
we understand what they are
going through now, because we
have gone through it here just as
your foreparents went through it as
a result of their experience with
King George.
Problem and Praxis: We often
wonder how or why the
descendants of the American
colonists have so easily forgotten
what their foreparents and ancestors
endured, when they were also
subjected to the rule of an
outside agitator.
We wonder why their descendants seem
to have forgotten how hard their
foreparents, along with the help
of many nationalists and other
nations fought to help secure
their freedoms, and the freedoms
that their progeny, enjoys even
until today.
Now wouldn't King George in
the same manner as you have
expressed that he was a friend
of the patriots, a friend who
provided them with land and
land grants, just as you feel
that America is a friend of the
Iraqi, Iranian and Pakistani
people - well I went a bit
further in saying what you
meant, but you get my drift?
Can you explain to me why it
always appears from many other
world people's perspectives,
that the lesson of freedom and
democracy appears to have been
lost or mitigated when
it comes to other people of the
world?
Why? For like King George, your
ancestors always seem to feel that they
are extending freedom, and causing
others 'to be better off than they
were' originally, when they are
conquered subdued or subjugated
by the descendants
of the freedom fighting colonists
that they descended from?
How come other world people, much
like your parents, would not view
your kindness, as your people seem to!
I am not being cynical, I really
don't get it! And you really might
not get this - most of us don't have
a dog in the fight - we are not
rooting for 'them', whoever whom
might happen to be. And we really
don't believe that you care a lick
about a free Iraq, Iran, Sudan,
Pakistan, Nicaragua, Bolivia..., we
believe that your people, our
half-American brothers and sisters
have another more sinister agenda!
What we are many times trying
to say is - that many times it
simply appears that you are trying
to do to 'them' what you did
to us - and somehow, believe
it or not, we never interpreted
that as helping us to become
free or 'to be better off'!
Comeback?
Posted by: The Rev | January 9, 2008 06:10 PM
USS Cole comes to mind here! Or did Arkin conveniently forget about that.
Posted by: Johnhubbard | January 9, 2008 06:09 PM
Well Rev, if Maliki ever decides that it is important to listen to the needs of his own people - as he should - and stop taking dictation from Iran; they might actually take the next step after having a constitution and solve the issues they face as a new government.
Their own resistance to their own thirst is appalling. Turkey - as an example - has a secular, surviving, and flourishing democracy.
There is no excuse for Iraq to say - that being a Muslim has no need for a democracy - when the alternatives are being under an Iranian kind of democracy. Mullahs looking over your shoulder and telling you what to do - is not a democracy - it is nothing more than a form of fascism.
I think that Maliki and other Shia representatives have been threatened by the Iranians. Maliki needs to be brave and resourceful; after all - he has US/Coalition forces to help him thru the night.
Iraq is unique - in that eighty percent of them are either Sunni Ararbs or Shia Arabs' the other twenty percent are Kurds.
Personally, I thought if we could suggest that Iraq be three provinces - with a central gov;t in Baghdad - it would do much to solve most of their ethnic dilemmas. Call them Sunnistan, Shiastan, and Kurdistan - as an example.
Baghdad has historically been the center for this entire region; so it would be the logical choice to administer to its provinces. Taxes and revenues could then be collected and distributed by needs and population. It is not as though I am the first one to see it be this way; logic dictates that it needs to be this way. But Maliki needs to be the man and do what is right for all Iraqis. They no longer need to worry about a guy like Hussein to take them away in the night...
Posted by: Plainfacto | January 9, 2008 05:48 PM
What kind of Arab or Persian is Farzad? Just wondering. Have you prayed 5 times today yet?
Posted by: jorho | January 9, 2008 05:45 PM
Hey Bulldog you republican nazi, how would you like to be whopped by a liberal. Anytime any place.
Posted by: bulldog_is_a_puss | January 9, 2008 05:37 PM
One caveat Plainfacto...
The Iraqi people are not free, their current fate is similar to that of the English colonists and they know that - wouldn't you agree.
The Iraq simply traded Saddam Hussein for, all due-respect, one dictator for another one! Someone, and his Party is still telling them what they can and cannot do.
Now can you answer this for me, for I just woke up from a bad dream? Did OSU, my former favorite team of 37 years, loose yet another BCS Championship game, and was it to the SEC?
And, is there something in the Constitution that says that there is something 'uncontinental' and 'unconstitutional' about our team loosing twice in 3 tries?
I suppose that the South has risen again after all, and therefore the Rev must head off to Tibet and join the monks and go into mediation until next years Big Game - the Rev is depressed!
Posted by: The Rev | January 9, 2008 05:21 PM
//If you keep messing with people, they will retaliate, just like the colonists did against the english mother land!//
Yes, but you must understand that Oliver Chromwell took up the fight against the English Monarchy - that spilled over into the 'colonies' as well.
Matter of fact, My great Granddad ('nameless') almost married Chronwell's (he brought reforms to British rule) sister.
Chromwell's man (my 'granddad') was used in the colonies to watch/report and ensure that British rule didn't seek to corrupt and rob the same.
The colonists were not recieving what their heavy taxes had paid England for - protection from the Indians and the Dutch - and the first colonists insisted upon a new identity as a new nation.
Since they began to take care of themselves independantly from England, they wished to be tied to them and their government no longer. This was the setting of the scene for 'the Charter Oak' incident which launched the colonies with their first constitution (Connecticut first). A constitution that was to be a first in the known world; it changed the concept of government from that point forward.
Yes; I know well of the constitution - more thn I have yet let you know - Rev...
Since we have began to help Iraq find the need for their own identity as free people; in the final analysis it will be up to them to show if they are worthy to be responsible for their own freedom. You can lead a thirsty horse to water, but you cannot force them to drink it...
Posted by: Plainfacto
Peace & Grace
Rev. C. Solomon
www.sealofabraham.blogspot.com
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