The Rev continues to duke it
out with Common Sense in
the Faith in Action Blog:
http://faithinactiononline.com/2008/04/30/jeremiah-has-a-rightobama-severs-whats-left/
26 Common Sense Says: May 8th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
@ Rev. Solomon,
Round and round you go. To not agree with some of your points or to take a pro-black stance translates to you as anti-white. And your constant praising of the goodness of whites translates to me as anti-black or shows a lack of self pride. You seem to be an elder of mine so I don’t discount your knowledge or wisdom but we just won’t agree on the semantics of our dialog on this post.
Are you sure you are reading my comments with a clear mind? I don’t think that you are because I never, never, never professed, intimated, hinted at, or never, never, ever aspired to, or proclaimed to be a minister. Maybe you just mis-thought like Miss Ann. When I said feel free to use me as a reference, I meant if she wanted to know who could be counted on to keep her informed of meetings or who was learning how to read, that you would be the best candidate that I presently know.
The main problem I have with your thought process is that to you(or so it seems) that if you love black people and do not close your eyes to the many injustices suffered by black people at the hands of whites, that you must have a limited thought process or be a raging racist. I’ll bet you have absolutely no problem with the Jewish people saying “Never Forget” because I know in your eyes the Holocaust was way, way worst than the enslavement of Africans in this country. I’m glad to live in a country or have the opportunity to express my views as well as listen to yours. It has been a pleasure to hear your views(albeit condescending) and look forward to the next post where we probably will disagree. Peace be unto you, The Honorary Right(and I do mean Right as in right-wing) Good Doctor, Rev. Solomon.
# 27 Rev. C. Solomon Says: May 9th, 2008 at 2:54 am
Common sense,A former colleague expressed similar sentiments to me several years ago, similar to what you have done. At the time, he went on and on about white people, and how they were giving away ‘our jobs’, to SE Asians…! Having tired of his rants I asked him point blank, you are afraid of white people aren’t you? And of course he was infuriated, because he thought of himself as soul brother number 2!
I reminded him of the story of David and Goliath in the canon. I pointed out that as a result of listening to him, it would appear that he saw himself as the little stripling version of David, and the white man as the giant. He augured then, they control everything, they have all of the power, money …! I reminded him that David, the stripling, conquered the giants in his life like Goliath. Now Bathseba, that’s another story!
He got angrier with me and said, you don’t know anything about black history do you! I explained that I knew more about black history than he did, and in that in spite of our captious and conjoined history, I was not living in the past. I explained that some whites had done a lot of bad things to us, however, that our destiny was in our hands, and that it was up to us to stand up and move on, in spite of the obstacles.
I also explained that if we were to continue making excuses while sitting, crying and waiting for all white people to change, that it would only hinder our progress and prevent our advancement!
He was so angry with me that he stopped speaking to me for approximately 5 months. One day I received a telephone call out of the blue. He said, I saw you driving down the street the other day while I was riding in a car with a new African female friend. He said, I told her that you were a former friend and proceeded to tell her about our prior conversation. He admitted that he expected her to see things his way, however, she did not!
She explained to him what I had tried to convey to him before, without even knowing me. She told him to listen to the Reverend, because his perspective was the correct one. I’ve had similar experiences when speaking with blacks from the Caribbean, et al.
Have you ever wondered why the brothas and sistahs from the Island nations where Shirley Chisholm’s relatives are from are so successful when either they or their descendants come to America? How about Minister Luis Farrakhan, the late El Hajj Malik El Shabazz, General Colin Powell, Roy Innis, Kwame Toure…, even their ‘mules’ and drug dealers? Most of these African descendants, have completely different perspectives than American blacks despite their hazardous past experiences with whites.
One West Indian told me, yes, poor or not, however, in our nations we were merchants, sheriffs…, racism was prevalent, however, we were still expected to take responsibility for our own lives. She added that she noticed a kind of dependency among blacks in America, when on the other hand all that her people detect is opportunity!
My friend phoned me and apologized. I will concede that I mis-remembered, and connected your title with someone else on the blog who identified himself as an Elder. Having said that, I have a perfect recollection of what you have written. Your threads are laced with vitriol and condescending comments towards whites. And for that matter, you haven’t been that kind to the Wright Reverend either! I simply tried to add some balance and to confront your categorical deterministic generalizations!I haven’t put black people down, no, not one time have I done that. You seem to be reading what you will into my comments, however. Having said that, your incessant use of pejoratives like ‘Ms. Ann’, belie your current reappropriations, and your rapprochement, with respect to what you have written.
You keep asking me to favor one race over the other, and it seems to frustrate you that I won’t choose one race over the other. Aren’t you really afraid of white people? Is there something in your own life that you are blaming whites for, that you haven’t been able to conquer yourself? Must you continue this incessant blame game, common sense? It is time for healing! How do you see men, as white trees walking over black men? We have exchanged theses, and anti-theses, and now it is time I believe for synthesis.I have said over and over again what Dr. MLK said on many occasions, I do not judge people by the color of their skin. And I have repeated over and over again that when it comes to blacks, not even blacks get an automatic pass, particularly when they are running for political office and they happen to be soliciting my vote! I am not finished - see next thread!
# 28 Rev. C. Solomon Says: May 9th, 2008 at 3:43 am
The Republic of the Congo, The Democratic Republic of the Congo, Zaire –
I attended a conference that was held in the auditorium of the San Francisco Public Library just about a decade ago. The speakers on the panel were nationals from the then, DRC. I felt embarrassed for them given their repartee, and when it was time for Q&A, I accepted the microphone in this rather large, even by library standards, auditorium.
I said, let me preface my comments by saying that I am proud to be a black person. However, I hear a repetitive theme in the repartee of each speaker on the stage. I said, you sound a lot like black people in America, the kind who criticize whites, while at the same time they rely on white American paternalism.
I used Rwanda as an example. The Rwandans, I said, like most African nations at the close of the African colonial period, insisted that the Belgians leave the natives to control their own destinies. However, and as soon as the E-bola virus broke out, the first emergency phone call was made to the Belgians requesting that they come back and ‘help us’! Remember Don Cheadle’s performance in Hotel Rwanda, it was the same thing during the slaughter of the Tutsi and moderate Hutu’s by the Hutus, in other words Belgians come and help us!
I asked the panelists, why is it that black people who have their own lands, resources… as they had, often behave in the same as American blacks? Oh you guessed it, they were yelling at me from the stage, and some of the Congolese in the audience where shouting or telling me to be quiet (as you intimated that the Wright Reverend should do). One of the panelists went to the microphone and said bro da’, you must not like yourself.
They ended the affair, not just to keep the Rev from catching a ‘beatdown’, but because their was a catered reception that was scheduled to take place across the street at the Ethiopian restaurant, Najir or something like that.
I decided to attend the affair. And guess what, you could tell by the looks on their faces that some of them were shocked that I had the nerve and the verve, to show my turncoat face in that chamber?
Many of the guests were even more surprised when the panelists walked up to me at my table, shook hands with me, and said, what you said across the street was right! One Congolese gentleman I will never forget, because his thumb was severed from his hand, which made the handshake seem somewhat peculiar.
Then we all dined and talked. He said, I know that what you said across the street was true, and that we should learn to stand on our own two feet. I added yes, it is amazing to me that you would come here and request assistance (aid, trade and credits) to the same United States of America that gave permission to former Congo President Joseph Kasavubu, to assassinate late Prime Minister Patrice Lamumba
You see Common Sense, we want to have it both ways, however, our message turns in on itself. Why? Because what too many blacks are saying while criticizing the white person is simply this, all I really want from you is your acceptance, and for you to validate me and to tell me that I am somebody. I am not that kind of black man Common Sense, however, it sounds to me as if you are! We are all growing, and I believe that there are some areas that Obama needs to grow in, not just to be President, but if he intends to heed the higher calling!
I will tell you why I explained to a Kenyan visitor in Washington DC, who along with other Kenyan delegates came to seek aid from the United States of America. I told her that I believed that it would be the greatest mistake that her delegation could ever make.
I fight daily against the spirit of white American global hegemony and political-categorical determinism, however, and having said that I learned long ago that not all whites are a part of that conspiracy, and that not all black people, well let’s just say, are risk aversive!
Remember Derrick Bell’s comment again Consensus: If we keep doing what we have been doing, we will keep getting what we have been getting. And let me add this as well, a voice woke me up one morning and it said:
Our theme, ought to be, to pursue different passions for different people
Peace & Grace
Reverend C. Solomon
Addenda: Senator Obama has stirred up a hornet's nest!
out with Common Sense in
the Faith in Action Blog:
http://faithinactiononline.com/2008/04/30/jeremiah-has-a-rightobama-severs-whats-left/
26 Common Sense Says: May 8th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
@ Rev. Solomon,
Round and round you go. To not agree with some of your points or to take a pro-black stance translates to you as anti-white. And your constant praising of the goodness of whites translates to me as anti-black or shows a lack of self pride. You seem to be an elder of mine so I don’t discount your knowledge or wisdom but we just won’t agree on the semantics of our dialog on this post.
Are you sure you are reading my comments with a clear mind? I don’t think that you are because I never, never, never professed, intimated, hinted at, or never, never, ever aspired to, or proclaimed to be a minister. Maybe you just mis-thought like Miss Ann. When I said feel free to use me as a reference, I meant if she wanted to know who could be counted on to keep her informed of meetings or who was learning how to read, that you would be the best candidate that I presently know.
The main problem I have with your thought process is that to you(or so it seems) that if you love black people and do not close your eyes to the many injustices suffered by black people at the hands of whites, that you must have a limited thought process or be a raging racist. I’ll bet you have absolutely no problem with the Jewish people saying “Never Forget” because I know in your eyes the Holocaust was way, way worst than the enslavement of Africans in this country. I’m glad to live in a country or have the opportunity to express my views as well as listen to yours. It has been a pleasure to hear your views(albeit condescending) and look forward to the next post where we probably will disagree. Peace be unto you, The Honorary Right(and I do mean Right as in right-wing) Good Doctor, Rev. Solomon.
# 27 Rev. C. Solomon Says: May 9th, 2008 at 2:54 am
Common sense,A former colleague expressed similar sentiments to me several years ago, similar to what you have done. At the time, he went on and on about white people, and how they were giving away ‘our jobs’, to SE Asians…! Having tired of his rants I asked him point blank, you are afraid of white people aren’t you? And of course he was infuriated, because he thought of himself as soul brother number 2!
I reminded him of the story of David and Goliath in the canon. I pointed out that as a result of listening to him, it would appear that he saw himself as the little stripling version of David, and the white man as the giant. He augured then, they control everything, they have all of the power, money …! I reminded him that David, the stripling, conquered the giants in his life like Goliath. Now Bathseba, that’s another story!
He got angrier with me and said, you don’t know anything about black history do you! I explained that I knew more about black history than he did, and in that in spite of our captious and conjoined history, I was not living in the past. I explained that some whites had done a lot of bad things to us, however, that our destiny was in our hands, and that it was up to us to stand up and move on, in spite of the obstacles.
I also explained that if we were to continue making excuses while sitting, crying and waiting for all white people to change, that it would only hinder our progress and prevent our advancement!
He was so angry with me that he stopped speaking to me for approximately 5 months. One day I received a telephone call out of the blue. He said, I saw you driving down the street the other day while I was riding in a car with a new African female friend. He said, I told her that you were a former friend and proceeded to tell her about our prior conversation. He admitted that he expected her to see things his way, however, she did not!
She explained to him what I had tried to convey to him before, without even knowing me. She told him to listen to the Reverend, because his perspective was the correct one. I’ve had similar experiences when speaking with blacks from the Caribbean, et al.
Have you ever wondered why the brothas and sistahs from the Island nations where Shirley Chisholm’s relatives are from are so successful when either they or their descendants come to America? How about Minister Luis Farrakhan, the late El Hajj Malik El Shabazz, General Colin Powell, Roy Innis, Kwame Toure…, even their ‘mules’ and drug dealers? Most of these African descendants, have completely different perspectives than American blacks despite their hazardous past experiences with whites.
One West Indian told me, yes, poor or not, however, in our nations we were merchants, sheriffs…, racism was prevalent, however, we were still expected to take responsibility for our own lives. She added that she noticed a kind of dependency among blacks in America, when on the other hand all that her people detect is opportunity!
My friend phoned me and apologized. I will concede that I mis-remembered, and connected your title with someone else on the blog who identified himself as an Elder. Having said that, I have a perfect recollection of what you have written. Your threads are laced with vitriol and condescending comments towards whites. And for that matter, you haven’t been that kind to the Wright Reverend either! I simply tried to add some balance and to confront your categorical deterministic generalizations!I haven’t put black people down, no, not one time have I done that. You seem to be reading what you will into my comments, however. Having said that, your incessant use of pejoratives like ‘Ms. Ann’, belie your current reappropriations, and your rapprochement, with respect to what you have written.
You keep asking me to favor one race over the other, and it seems to frustrate you that I won’t choose one race over the other. Aren’t you really afraid of white people? Is there something in your own life that you are blaming whites for, that you haven’t been able to conquer yourself? Must you continue this incessant blame game, common sense? It is time for healing! How do you see men, as white trees walking over black men? We have exchanged theses, and anti-theses, and now it is time I believe for synthesis.I have said over and over again what Dr. MLK said on many occasions, I do not judge people by the color of their skin. And I have repeated over and over again that when it comes to blacks, not even blacks get an automatic pass, particularly when they are running for political office and they happen to be soliciting my vote! I am not finished - see next thread!
# 28 Rev. C. Solomon Says: May 9th, 2008 at 3:43 am
The Republic of the Congo, The Democratic Republic of the Congo, Zaire –
I attended a conference that was held in the auditorium of the San Francisco Public Library just about a decade ago. The speakers on the panel were nationals from the then, DRC. I felt embarrassed for them given their repartee, and when it was time for Q&A, I accepted the microphone in this rather large, even by library standards, auditorium.
I said, let me preface my comments by saying that I am proud to be a black person. However, I hear a repetitive theme in the repartee of each speaker on the stage. I said, you sound a lot like black people in America, the kind who criticize whites, while at the same time they rely on white American paternalism.
I used Rwanda as an example. The Rwandans, I said, like most African nations at the close of the African colonial period, insisted that the Belgians leave the natives to control their own destinies. However, and as soon as the E-bola virus broke out, the first emergency phone call was made to the Belgians requesting that they come back and ‘help us’! Remember Don Cheadle’s performance in Hotel Rwanda, it was the same thing during the slaughter of the Tutsi and moderate Hutu’s by the Hutus, in other words Belgians come and help us!
I asked the panelists, why is it that black people who have their own lands, resources… as they had, often behave in the same as American blacks? Oh you guessed it, they were yelling at me from the stage, and some of the Congolese in the audience where shouting or telling me to be quiet (as you intimated that the Wright Reverend should do). One of the panelists went to the microphone and said bro da’, you must not like yourself.
They ended the affair, not just to keep the Rev from catching a ‘beatdown’, but because their was a catered reception that was scheduled to take place across the street at the Ethiopian restaurant, Najir or something like that.
I decided to attend the affair. And guess what, you could tell by the looks on their faces that some of them were shocked that I had the nerve and the verve, to show my turncoat face in that chamber?
Many of the guests were even more surprised when the panelists walked up to me at my table, shook hands with me, and said, what you said across the street was right! One Congolese gentleman I will never forget, because his thumb was severed from his hand, which made the handshake seem somewhat peculiar.
Then we all dined and talked. He said, I know that what you said across the street was true, and that we should learn to stand on our own two feet. I added yes, it is amazing to me that you would come here and request assistance (aid, trade and credits) to the same United States of America that gave permission to former Congo President Joseph Kasavubu, to assassinate late Prime Minister Patrice Lamumba
You see Common Sense, we want to have it both ways, however, our message turns in on itself. Why? Because what too many blacks are saying while criticizing the white person is simply this, all I really want from you is your acceptance, and for you to validate me and to tell me that I am somebody. I am not that kind of black man Common Sense, however, it sounds to me as if you are! We are all growing, and I believe that there are some areas that Obama needs to grow in, not just to be President, but if he intends to heed the higher calling!
I will tell you why I explained to a Kenyan visitor in Washington DC, who along with other Kenyan delegates came to seek aid from the United States of America. I told her that I believed that it would be the greatest mistake that her delegation could ever make.
I fight daily against the spirit of white American global hegemony and political-categorical determinism, however, and having said that I learned long ago that not all whites are a part of that conspiracy, and that not all black people, well let’s just say, are risk aversive!
Remember Derrick Bell’s comment again Consensus: If we keep doing what we have been doing, we will keep getting what we have been getting. And let me add this as well, a voice woke me up one morning and it said:
Our theme, ought to be, to pursue different passions for different people
Peace & Grace
Reverend C. Solomon
Addenda: Senator Obama has stirred up a hornet's nest!
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